Unbelievable? 19 Mar 2011 - Presuppositional apologetics round 2

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6 months ago Sye Ten Bruggencate and atheist Paul Baird met to discuss Sye's presuppositional approach to proof of God.  Sye claims that the fact Paul believes in laws of logic, maths, science and rationality prove that God exists.
The show was a popular download with many subsequent online debates.  They are back - Paul brings 6 months experience of debate on the subject online with him.  Sye responds to some criticisms we received of his approach, including whether one can prove full blown Christian belief from presuppositional apologetics.
For Sye see http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/
For Paul Baird http://patientandpersistant.blogspot.com/
To see some of the discussion threads on Presuppositional apologetics created by the last programme see:
Sye & James debate Presuppositional apologetics round 2
Presuppositional apologetics Sye & Paul Show Comments
For more Christian/non-Christian debate visit http://www.premier.org.uk/unbelievable or get the MP3 podcast http://ondemand.premier.org.uk/unbelievable/AudioFeed.aspx or Via Itunes
If you enjoyed this programme you may also enjoy:
Unbelievable? 31 July 2010 - Presuppositional apologetic proof of God Paul Baird and Sye TenBruggencate - the first time round
Unbelievable? 21 Aug 2010 - Debating Apologetics Online Christians Todd Pitner & Richard Morgan with atheist Paul Baird
Join the discussion at the Premier Community http://www.premiercommunity.org.uk/group/unbelievable and via Facebook and Twitter

Released on 23 Jun 2014

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        • app/Models/PodcastEpisode.php:134
        • view::livewire.section-podcast-player:168
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:84
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:59
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/View.php:195
      • PodcastEpisode.php#102premier490μsselect * from `podcasts` where `podcasts`.`id` = 31 and `podcasts`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: 31
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/PodcastEpisode.php:102
        • app/Models/Traits/ThumbnailImage.php:26
        • app/Models/Traits/ThumbnailImage.php:66
        • view::livewire.section-podcast-player:168
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:84
      • PodcastEpisode.php#134premier340μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 2 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/PodcastEpisode.php:134
        • view::livewire.section-podcast-player:168
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:84
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:59
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/View.php:195
      • Setting.php#20premier610μsselect * from `settings` where `setting_key` = 'web_login_modal_title' limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: web_login_modal_title
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Setting.php:20
        • app/Helpers/Settings.php:6
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69
      • Setting.php#20premier400μsselect * from `settings` where `setting_key` = 'web_login_modal_subtitle' limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: web_login_modal_subtitle
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Setting.php:20
        • app/Helpers/Settings.php:6
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier1.77msselect * from `brand_pages` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = 2 and `brand_pages`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `brand_pages`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:104
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier810μsselect * from `audio_series` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `audio_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `audio_series`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:105
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier790μsselect * from `article_series` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `article_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `article_series`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:106
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier790μsselect * from `podcasts` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = 2 and `podcasts`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `podcasts`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:107
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • Podcast.php#137premier470μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 2 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Podcast.php:137
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:32
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69
      • BrandPage.php#22premier390μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 2 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/BrandPage.php:22
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:32
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69
      • BrandPage.php#22premier390μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 2 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/BrandPage.php:22
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:32
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier600μsselect * from `brand_pages` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = 2 and `brand_pages`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `brand_pages`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:104
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier670μsselect * from `audio_series` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `audio_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `audio_series`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:105
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier710μsselect * from `article_series` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `article_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `article_series`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:106
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier1msselect * from `podcasts` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = 2 and `podcasts`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `podcasts`.`deleted_at` is null
        Bindings
        • 0: 2
        • 1: 1
        • 2: 1
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18
        • app/Models/Brand.php:107
        • view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
      • Setting.php#20premier450μsselect * from `settings` where `setting_key` = 'web_donation_link' limit 1
        Bindings
        • 0: web_donation_link
        Backtrace
        • app/Models/Setting.php:20
        • app/Helpers/Settings.php:6
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110
        • vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58
        • vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69
      App\Models\Brand
      9Brand.php#?
      App\Models\Podcast
      7Podcast.php#?
      App\Models\Setting
      6Setting.php#?
      App\Models\PodcastEpisode
      5PodcastEpisode.php#?
      App\Models\BrandPage
      4BrandPage.php#?
      section-podcast-player #gPhQKZ05xrqPC4MGynf4
      array:5 [ "data" => array:10 [ "podcast" => App\Models\Podcast {#2065 #connection: "mysq...
          _token
          nC01M1l4tuLwkNLwAwEUXeDChAPBQ6vsiMJg5Ndw
          ClearShow all
          Date ↕MethodURLData
          #12025-07-10 20:18:37GET/unbelievable/podcasts/episodes/unbelievable-19-mar-2011-presuppositional-apologetics-round-26442311