Lucy Letby: Murder on the neonatal ward, Munchausen’s by proxy, doctors versus nurses, and the banality of evil

00:00

Britain has been gripped by horror by the recent conviction of a neonatal nurse called Lucy Letby, who murdered seven premature babies and attempted to kill six others at the hospital where she worked. In this episode we discuss this horrifying and tragic story and whether Letby could or should have been stopped earlier. Will this case damage trust between parents and patients, and the medical professionals tasked with looking after them? Is it actually possible to prevent the one-in-a-thousand psychopathic killers from getting into positions of power over vulnerable people? What unintended consequences might result in our efforts to protect ourselves from dangerous and rogue individuals like Letby? And how might our Christian understanding of evil help us cope with the horrifying truth that an ordinary and unremarkable nurse could also be Britain’s worst child serial killer?

There has been lots of excellent media coverage and investigations into the case for those who would like to read more:
- We relied on the Sunday Times investigation in the episode a lot https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lucy-letby-files-nurse-hospital-evidence-rkxchgqh9
- The BBC have also done a thorough investigation https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66120934
- And this Guardian piece digs into the background of Letby https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/18/lucy-letby-the-beige-and-average-nurse-who-turned-into-a-baby-killer

- Subscribe to the Matters of Life and Death podcast: https://pod.link/1509923173
- If you want to go deeper into some of the topics we discuss, visit John's website: http://www.johnwyatt.com
- For more resources to help you explore faith and the big questions, visit: http://www.premierunbelievable.com

Released on 6 Sep 2023

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Backtrace	app/Models/Setting.php:20 app/Helpers/Settings.php:6 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58 vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier1.72ms

select * from `brand_pages` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = 85 and `brand_pages`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `brand_pages`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:104 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier920μs

select * from `audio_series` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = 85 and `audio_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `audio_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:105 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier950μs

select * from `article_series` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = 85 and `article_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `article_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:106 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier1.11ms

select * from `podcasts` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = 85 and `podcasts`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `podcasts`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:107 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

Podcast.php#137premier540μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 85 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1

Bindings	0: 85
Backtrace	app/Models/Podcast.php:137 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:32 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58 vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier840μs

select * from `brand_pages` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = 85 and `brand_pages`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `brand_pages`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:104 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier730μs

select * from `audio_series` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = 85 and `audio_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `audio_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:105 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier690μs

select * from `article_series` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = 85 and `article_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `article_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:106 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier870μs

select * from `podcasts` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = 85 and `podcasts`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `podcasts`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 85 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:107 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

Setting.php#20premier410μsselect * from `settings` where `setting_key` = 'web_donation_link' limit 1

Bindings	0: web_donation_link
Backtrace	app/Models/Setting.php:20 app/Helpers/Settings.php:6 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58 vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69

App\Models\Brand: 7Brand.php#?
App\Models\Podcast: 7Podcast.php#?
App\Models\Setting: 6Setting.php#?
App\Models\PodcastEpisode: 5PodcastEpisode.php#?

section-podcast-player #iJp0UktW00TbIKLQbI3k: array:5 [ "data" => array:10 [ "podcast" => App\Models\Podcast {#2065 #connection: "mysq...

_token: 8q5t2e7Yf2iqRGKhDCgmIte9AuQus4Kci1jspIfD

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	Date ↕	Method	URL	Data
#1	2025-06-21 12:05:13	GET	/matters-of-life-and-death/podcasts/episodes/lucy-letby-murder-on-the-neonatal-ward-munchausens-by-proxy-doctors-versus-nurses-and-the-banality-of-evil	64 40 25 1

Lucy Letby: Murder on the neonatal ward, Munchausen’s by proxy, doctors versus nurses, and the banality of evil

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