Unbelievable? Debating animal suffering and God - Michael Murray vs Phil Harper

00:00

Christian Philosopher Michael Murray wrote a book in 2008 making a defence of God in the face of millennia of animal suffering. He presents his arguments to atheist Phil Harper (aka Skydivephil).
They also discuss the contentious issue of whether animals experience pain differently to humans, after William Lane Craig ignited a debate on the subject after quoting Michael Murray's work in a debate.
MP3 of this show http://media.premier.org.uk/unbelievable/6821081e-913a-4789-ae1e-00b10730ad17.mp3
For Michael Murray's response on William Lane Craig's blog http://www.reasonablefaith.org/animal-pain-re-visited
For Michael Murray's book Nature Red in Tooth and Claw http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0199596328>
For "Skydivephil's "animal suffering" videos on YouTube http://youtu.be/mLSwRcvX72M & http://youtu.be/sKuEbbDi-tQ
For more faith debates visit www.premierchristianradio.com/unbelievable
Join the conversation: Facebook and Twitter
Get the MP3 podcast of Unbelievable? http://ondemand.premier.org.uk/unbelievable/AudioFeed.aspx or Via Itunes

Released on 10 Oct 2014

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select * from `audio_series` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `audio_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `audio_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 2 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:105 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier1.24ms

select * from `article_series` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `article_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `article_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 2 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:106 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier890μs

select * from `podcasts` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = 2 and `podcasts`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `podcasts`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 2 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:107 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:29 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

Podcast.php#137premier580μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 2 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1

Bindings	0: 2
Backtrace	app/Models/Podcast.php:137 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:32 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58 vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69

BrandPage.php#22premier600μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 2 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1

Bindings	0: 2
Backtrace	app/Models/BrandPage.php:22 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:32 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58 vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69

BrandPage.php#22premier680μsselect * from `brands` where `brands`.`id` = 2 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null limit 1

Bindings	0: 2
Backtrace	app/Models/BrandPage.php:22 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:32 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58 vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier890μs

select * from `brand_pages` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = 2 and `brand_pages`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `brand_pages`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `brand_pages`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 2 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:104 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier890μs

select * from `audio_series` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `audio_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `audio_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `audio_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 2 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:105 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier820μs

select * from `article_series` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = 2 and `article_series`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `article_series`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `article_series`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 2 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:106 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

ContentFamilyTrait.php#18premier790μs

select * from `podcasts` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = 2 and `podcasts`.`brand_id` is not null and ((not exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null)) or (exists (select * from `brands` where `podcasts`.`brand_id` = `brands`.`id` and `is_active` = 1 and `brands`.`deleted_at` is null))) and `is_active` = 1 and `podcasts`.`deleted_at` is null

Bindings	0: 2 1: 1 2: 1
Backtrace	app/Models/Traits/ContentFamilyTrait.php:18 app/Models/Brand.php:107 view::components.sections.sub-menu-brand:38 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58

Setting.php#20premier470μsselect * from `settings` where `setting_key` = 'web_donation_link' limit 1

Bindings	0: web_donation_link
Backtrace	app/Models/Setting.php:20 app/Helpers/Settings.php:6 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/Filesystem/Filesystem.php:110 vendor/laravel/framework/src/Illuminate/View/Engines/PhpEngine.php:58 vendor/livewire/livewire/src/ComponentConcerns/RendersLivewireComponents.php:69

App\Models\Brand: 9Brand.php#?
App\Models\Podcast: 7Podcast.php#?
App\Models\Setting: 6Setting.php#?
App\Models\PodcastEpisode: 5PodcastEpisode.php#?
App\Models\BrandPage: 4BrandPage.php#?

section-podcast-player #Yxvykcze9ADlmPriPweS: array:5 [ "data" => array:10 [ "podcast" => App\Models\Podcast {#2065 #connection: "mysq...

_token: aHAoUJUGRTLtXQhMrPwy98vmXauzVbHwxjVaAsns

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	Date ↕	Method	URL	Data
#1	2025-07-11 12:09:56	GET	/unbelievable/podcasts/episodes/unbelievable-debating-animal-suffering-and-god-michael-murray-vs-phil-harper	64 42 31 1

Unbelievable? Debating animal suffering and God - Michael Murray vs Phil Harper

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